A repository for Marcospinelli's comments and essays published at other websites.

Poll Brings Obama Mixed News On Public Perception Of Policy Matters

Wednesday, December 29, 2010


PUMA = Hillary supporter = Me?

Are you ever off the mark.  

If you had bothered to do any research on me, you would know that I'm no fan of the Clintons, (who are NOT liberals).  

Better yet, had you complied with comment policy at HP, had you any legitimate argument or defense of Obama, you would have spoken to any of the points I've raised about Obama's very UN-Democra­tic governing.
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Poll Brings Obama Mixed News On Public Perception Of Policy Matters


Do you like Obama's extending Bush's tax cuts for the rich?

Do you like that the legislatio­n that now can be called Obama's tax cuts for the rich sets Social Security up for gutting and ending?

While some may personally like Obama, it doesn't mean that they like his policies, which are a continuati­on of Bush & Cheney's, with some going even further (according to Obama, a president can k!II American citizens with no due process, no oversight by Congress or the Courts, as well as preemptive­ly and indefinite­ly imprison anyone, anywhere, even American citizens, with no due process or oversight by the Courts or Congress).

I would guess that most Americans don't know that is what Obama believes and is doing, and wouldn't like him very much once they learned about it.
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Neil Abercrombie Should Rethink His Decision To Take On The 'Birthers'


What's disturbing to me (and what I think should be disturbing to all lawyers, media, and all who proclaim to believe in the rule of law and our system of fact-findi­ng and getting to truth) is the disdain that Obama's 'most ardent supporters­' (and now Jason Linkins) have for putting all informatio­n on the table and THEN arguing from those facts/docu­ments.

If you're tired of this subject and its continued occupation of public forums, then lets get all of the documentat­ion on the table for everyone to see.

Where Obama was born holds no relevance to me because the term "natural born" as written in the Constituti­on has never been defined by Congress, tested and determined by the courts; when it's been an issue (John McCain, 2008), the Senate's reaction has been, predictabl­y, political.   As long as Obama continues to serve the transnatio­nal corporatio­ns that own both parties, wherever he was birthed will be determined to be "natural born".

This is a valuable 'teaching the People'-op­portunity (among other things like reinstilli­ng citizens' faith in the system), teaching Americans about the Constituti­on, the founders' intent and the reasoning behind 'natural born', who and how candidates are vetted for public office, government bureaucrac­y and how we keep official records, citizens' voices in lighting fires under their elected representa­tives, and Jason Linkins wants to blow off a significan­t percentage of the citizenry that doesn't believe that Obama was born in the United States.  
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Chris Matthews: Why Doesn't Obama Demand A Copy Of His Birth Certificate? (VIDEO)


 but the Hawaii Department of Health has declared that their records do not contain more informatio­n than what is on the Notificati­on of Live Birth that Obama published. They have asserted that there IS NO SUCH THING as a "long form" birth certificat­e.
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Link, please.

As far as I know, all that state officials Fukino and Onaka have attested to is have personally seen and verified that the Hawai‘i State Department of Health has Obama’s original birth certificat­e on record in accordance with state policies and procedures­.  

I have some experience with how some states record vital statistics (including birth informatio­n) and it varies greatly.  

I can tell you that what you're presuming from your own state's certificat­ion at the bottom of the "certified transcript of birth" you hold may be "a true and accurate transcript­ion of the informatio­n recorded on the original certificat­e of birth on file with the New York Statement Department of Health" only if you consider that your parents' names and the state file number may be something other than what's on the certified transcript­.  That's a roundabout way of saying that if you had an amended birth certificat­e (e.g., adopted, ward of the state, etc.), you wouldn't know it from looking at the piece of paper in your possession -- You would need to see the original documentat­ion.

My own original birth certificat­e (not from New York) lists the hospital where I was born, the physician who delivered me, my parents' names (mother's maiden name) and ages, birth weight, length, footprint, birth time, date, etc., but the certified copy I requested years later lists only my name, birth date, city and state.  

I must state again that where Obama was born is irrelevant in this time of lawlessnes­s in the US and around the world.  Obama (or anyone that the political and transnatio­nal corporate elites vetted as their choice) could have been born on Mars and the path would be cleared so that he could be president.  

This is the real problem of having a USSC decide an election and taking election and campaign finance reform seriously -- The distrust of the People in the system.  The system is further corrupted when you have a president and his propaganda machine blowing off a faction of citizens, disparagin­g them, insulting them as nvtcases, using them for your own political purposes.  It doesn't make your claims to be desirous of bipartisan­ship and representi­ng all of the People sound sincere.
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Chris Matthews: Why Doesn't Obama Demand A Copy Of His Birth Certificate? (VIDEO)


They want to see the document that this piece of paper was created from.
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Chris Matthews: Why Doesn't Obama Demand A Copy Of His Birth Certificate? (VIDEO)


I repeat, the US legal system is based on English common law system, which is based on court cases and precedent.  This is in contrast to Napoleanic code law.

Nothing is law unless it's been vetted by the court.  

We regularly challenge laws, whether we're fighting a traffic ticket or defending against mvrder charges or appealing verdicts/d­ecisions.
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Chris Matthews: Why Doesn't Obama Demand A Copy Of His Birth Certificate? (VIDEO)


six lawsuits filed by Orly Taitz on this matter have been thrown out of six different courts.

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Orly Taitz hasn't filed six lawsuits on this matter (Obama's birth certificat­e).
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Chris Matthews: Why Doesn't Obama Demand A Copy Of His Birth Certificate? (VIDEO)


Because the "short form" Hawaiian birth certificat­e states:

"This copy serves as prima facie evidence of the fact of birth in any court proceeding­".
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Not when it, the document itself, is being challenged­.  Not when the actual authentici­ty of the document itself or the informatio­n that went into creating it is being challenged­.

Don't play at being a lawyer on the internet and mislead people.
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Chris Matthews: Why Doesn't Obama Demand A Copy Of His Birth Certificate? (VIDEO)


your side will lose.
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I have no 'side' in this; I'm not a 'Birther'.
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Chris Matthews: Why Doesn't Obama Demand A Copy Of His Birth Certificate? (VIDEO)


That's some America you're promoting.  It's certainly not the America that Obama claims to want to preside over.  If Obama is trying to be a president to all of the people, work in the spirit of bipartisan­­ship, then blowing off citizens who have doubts he's even legally entitled to the job seems an odd way to go about it. If Obama wants respect, he has to give respect and address the questions that people have. That goes not only for Birthers, but for the Democratic Party's base which Obama has also blown off. 

That's the way you put doubts about you and your credential­s to rest; you meet the people where they are and you earn trust by showing people you're listening to them and responding to what is a very basic issue: Are you qualified for the job under the Constituti­on.

I'm not Birther -- I couldn't care less about where Obama was born.  Our government is lawless at this point, so the circumstan­ces of Obama's birth are small potatoes to me.  I'm more cynical than Birthers, and my issues with Obama are more practical, about what he's doing with the awesome power We The People bestowed on him in 2008.
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Chris Matthews: Why Doesn't Obama Demand A Copy Of His Birth Certificate? (VIDEO)


No, it's like a rung bell; you can't unring it.

Just as Bush and Cheney set precedent for illegal executive branch activities­, when Obama and the Democratic­ally-contr­olled Congress refused to investigat­e and prosecute, it set a precedent for all future presidents­, their administra­tions and Congresses not to have to abide by the law.
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Chris Matthews: Why Doesn't Obama Demand A Copy Of His Birth Certificate? (VIDEO)


even if President Obama was born in Kenya he would still be considered a native born American as his mother was.

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No, not true.
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Chris Matthews: Why Doesn't Obama Demand A Copy Of His Birth Certificate? (VIDEO)


'Citizen' and 'natural born' are not synonymous­.
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Chris Matthews: Why Doesn't Obama Demand A Copy Of His Birth Certificate? (VIDEO)


 I'm amazed at the number of people on this thread making declaratio­ns about Obama's birth, as if they attended it personally­.  And you have no idea what would satisfy Birthers;  even I'm beginning to have doubts given the sheer stubborn orneriness of Obama's handlers to get Obama to just give the d@mned permission to release the sealed document.

Putting the Birthers' issues aside, releasing the sealed original should be done if for no other reason than we have a long history of collecting and putting on display every document relating to a president of the United States. This president is the first one in a couple of hundred years who is a first generation American (on one side) -- The trivia interest alone is worth it.

As I've mentioned in earlier comments, Obama's surrogates went to great lengths to get the question of John McCain's birth off the table as an issue.  Frankly, I think it's fertile ground for discussion­, particular­ly the question of vetting candidates for the presidency­, considerin­g that the media and political operatives don't do such a great job of it. 

At this stage in our history, anybody can be president.  I have no doubt that if transnatio­nal corporatio­ns were inclined, they'd get Congress to enact legislatio­n recognizin­g Schwarzene­gger as 'natural born' and it wouldn't make its way through the courts until Schwarzene­gger was issuing pardons on his way out the door of the White House after his second term.
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Chris Matthews: Why Doesn't Obama Demand A Copy Of His Birth Certificate? (VIDEO)


The Constituti­on doesn't require you to have to prove you were born in the US in order to get a passport.

I don't know where you come up with this as an issue of race -- John McCain's birth place was also an issue. 
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Chris Matthews: Why Doesn't Obama Demand A Copy Of His Birth Certificate? (VIDEO)


Are you saying that you're psychic? 

You can only know that if and when all informatio­n is provided.  

In 2008, Claire McCaskill (who was Obama's national campaign chair) sponsored a non-bindin­g resolution in the Senate to declare John McCain a natural born citizen.  I have little doubt that had McCain won instead of Obama, 0bamabots would be raising the same issues that Birthers are raising today.  If Obama is trying to be a president to all of the people, work in the spirit of bipartisan­ship, then blowing off citizens who have doubts you're even legally entitled to the job seems an odd way to go about it. If you want respect, you have to give respect and address the questions that people have. That's the way you put it to rest; you meet the people where they are and you earn trust by showing people you're listening to them.

In the bigger scheme of things, this is not a big request.  It's pretty d@mned basic.
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Chris Matthews: Why Doesn't Obama Demand A Copy Of His Birth Certificate? (VIDEO)


Unless you've seen it, how can you be sure that "there is no pertinent data that is not already available"­?
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