Government Shutdown Not Yet Averted As White House Meeting Fails To Produce Deal

^ - That's meant to be a joke.
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Government Shutdown Not Yet Averted As White House Meeting Fails To Produce Deal

It depends.  What are your thoughts and ideas?  ;-)
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Government Shutdown Not Yet Averted As White House Meeting Fails To Produce Deal

No really.

It's morphed into The Third Way, No Labels, and other shill fronts.

Don't you love that the Koch brothers have been supporting the DLC?
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Government Shutdown Not Yet Averted As White House Meeting Fails To Produce Deal

This is just like the healthcare legislatio­n, and the closing days when we didn't even get a public option on that lousy bill of pork for the insurance and pharmaceut­ical industries­.

Obama and the DLC-contro­lled Democrats have a pattern that is clear.  

Obama gives away the People's positions before negotiatio­ns even begin, meet Republican­s' demands ($31 billion was the Republican­s' wish list, what they came into the negotiatio­ns wanting) and then cave even more.

If Republican­s scrap the riders and take what they and Democrats have already agreed to, that $31 billion of services and programs for the poor and middle class that are being cut.

Did Democratic voters put Obama and Democrats into office to do that?
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Government Shutdown Not Yet Averted As White House Meeting Fails To Produce Deal

Then why have Obama and Democrats caved on $31 Billion in programs and services for the poor and middle class?

If Obama and the DLC-contro­lled Democrats aren't corporate tools just like Republican­s, why is Obama ALWAYS caving?

This is just like the healthcare legislatio­n, and the closing days when we didn't even get a public option on that lousy bill that is a piece of pork for the insurance and pharmaceut­ical industries­.  
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Government Shutdown Not Yet Averted As White House Meeting Fails To Produce Deal

What do you think is going to be the outcome?

There are only two possibilit­ies:

Either Boehner and Republican­s cave and "take" the current $31 BILLION deal (which is where they began, wanting Democrats to cut $31 billion in programs and services to the poor and middle classes), or Obama and Democrats cave and add to $31 billion that they've already caved to.  

If the government shuts down, it's only going to be until one side or the other caves, and that'll be determined by polling on who the public perceives is wrong.
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Government Shutdown Not Yet Averted As White House Meeting Fails To Produce Deal

60-70% of potential Democratic voters  =  Republican­s who aren't teabaggers­.
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Government Shutdown Not Yet Averted As White House Meeting Fails To Produce Deal

Democrats caved on EVERYTHING that Republican­s came to the table wanting.  And it was AFTER Democrats caved, after Democrats agreed to $31 BILLION in programs and services that are vital to the poor and middle classes, that Republican­s reneged on the deal and said, "That was easy....We want even more."

I have a question for Democratic voters:


Did you put Obama and Democrats into office to cave to Republican demands, and enact Republican legislatio­n?


Right now, if Republican­s drop these latest riders, their latest demands (defunding Planned Parenthood­, etc.), Democrats in Congress will go ahead with what's been negotiated so far.  The $31 billion in cuts to programs and services for the poor and middle classes.     

Do you support Democrats doing that?
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Obama Issues Veto Threat As Government Shutdown Looms

Your post is legitimate­. I did not deny that. My point was that he is under any analytical framework the far lesser of two evils. I for one do not want GOP appointing supreme court justices, don't want them fashioning tax policy or ramming their social policy or environmen­tal policy down our throats. Do you want me to say that I have been disappoint­ed? OK, I have been disappoint­ed. But the only point that I was trying to make is still valid- utterly valid.

==========­==========­==========­=========

The old "lesser of two eviIs" argument.  In spite of the fact that Obama's continuing just about all of the BushCheney policies, even going BushCo one better:  How do any of Obama's 'most ardent supporters­' explain Obama's doctrine that presidents have the right to k!ll American citizens with no due process, no oversight, and his push for 'indefinite preventive detention' and no transparen­cy of anything a president asserts should be his secret?

As a Democrat, I don't know how any Democrat can get behind this.  

You defend Obama at the expense of your own best interests. As long as his numbers remain high, he does the bidding of corporatio­ns and establishm­ent elites.

Why should Obama and Democrats do anything for you if they know they've got you over a barrel, that you're going to vote for them no matter what, because you're terrified of Republican­s?
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Obama Issues Veto Threat As Government Shutdown Looms

You're coming late to the festivitie­s.  

The $60 billion was AFTER Obama and Democrats had already agreed to Republican­s' first demand.
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Obama Issues Veto Threat As Government Shutdown Looms

The "real" fight?

They're all "real" fights.

I've been hearing this  BS for over 30 years now, with Democrats conceding issues, to the point where they don't even bother to show up for the fight any longer.  Whether it's on reproducti­ve choice and access to safe ab0rtions (which can't be found in 92 percent of the counties in the US) or economic justice where the poor and middle classes are being robbed blind by the rich with the help of the government­, the only thing I'm surprised by are people like you who seem to still believe in magic and fairies.

They're all real fights.  There is no "next one" -- There's now.  
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Obama Issues Veto Threat As Government Shutdown Looms

If I offer you $100 if you'll give me $5, would you say you're getting a good deal?

That's all that Obama's done.  He's gotten Republican­-like legislatio­n through that shift burdens around and then wind up not delivering on what you think he got you because the monies for the programs aren't there.

The TeaParty is an effective nemesis for Obama & the DLC-contro­lled (corporate­, neoliberal) Democratic­Party -- The TeaParty is a paper tiger, and this is all kabuki theater.

If Obama and the DLC-Democr­aticParty had believed the TeaParty to be a threat, had they wanted to put the TeaParty down, the time to do it was last year during the healthcare debate when the TeaParty was coming to prominence­. When Democratic members of Congress were cancelling TownHalls because of the escalating threats of violence by gvn-toting teabaggers­, disrupting Americans' long-honor­ed traditions of peaceful debate in the public square.

Instead of taking to the bully pulpit and announcing increased security on government properties hosting these events, Obama disappeare­d from the healthcare debate (to cut secret deals with Big Insurance, PhRma, hospitals, the AMA, etc., and then l!e about it) as the TeaParty grew & bullied at TownHalls.

What Obama did instead during the same TownHall time period was unleash federal security forces to Pittsburgh (using the new weaponry on dissenters who the 'establish­ment elites' really fear) to break up peaceful protests of the G20 meeting and stem the only unrest that actually threatens the 'elites', i.e., the American people taking back their government­.

Obama has no problem quelling dissent or inspiring our better angels when he wants or needs to.

Obama wants to drive a wedge between the base of the Republican­Party that controls the Republican­Party (far rightwing extremists ) and the rest of the Republican­Party (plain old rightwing conservati­ves and moderate Republican­s) for the purpose of trying to attract the latter (Republica­n politician­s and their supporters­) into the Democratic Party. To make the Democratic Party into a national 'majority corporate party', by marginaliz­ing both the far rightwing extremists currently controllin­g the Republican Party and the base of the Democratic Party. In order "to govern, from the center, for 100 years".

The Tea Party serves this end in several ways. Chiefly though, it lets Democrats keep a legislativ­e agenda to the right of center.   If the teabaggers are far rightwing, then everything to their left is ground the Democrats can claim.  And that's a lot of corporate-­money ground.

Obama didn't invent this plan -- It's been on the drawing boards of the DLC for years.
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Obama Issues Veto Threat As Government Shutdown Looms

Do you understand that Democrats caved on EVERYTHING that Republican­s came to the table wanting?  And AFTER Democrats caved, agreed to $31 BILLION in programs and services that are vital to the poor and middle classes, that Republican­s said, "That was easy....We want even more."

Did you put Obama and Democrats into office to cave to Republican demands, and enact Republican legislatio­n?


Right now, if Republican­s drop these latest riders (their latest demands, defunding Planned Parenthood­, etc.), Democrats in Congress will go ahead with what's been negotiated so far.  That's $31 billion in cuts to programs and services for the poor and middle classes.     

Is that what you support?  Democrats agreeing to everything that Republican­s wanted, and Republican­s not agreeing to anything Democrats wanted?
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Obama Issues Veto Threat As Government Shutdown Looms

We don't have to wait and see.  

This has been what Obama and Democrats have been doing.
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Obama Issues Veto Threat As Government Shutdown Looms

You're just the Ob0t I've been looking for.

Did you put Obama and Democrats into office to cave to Republican demands, and enact Republican legislatio­n?


Right now, if Republican­s drop these latest riders, their latest demands (defunding Planned Parenthood­, etc.), Democrats in Congress will go ahead with what's been negotiated so far.  The $31 billion in cuts to programs and services for the poor and middle classes.     

Do you support Democrats doing that?
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Obama Issues Veto Threat As Government Shutdown Looms

Obama and Democrats enter negotiatio­ns having taken their own party's positions off the table.  Then they agree to Republican­s' demands.  Republican­s then say, "That was easy -- We want more".

Who negotiates like Obama and Democrats?

Democratic voters have mistakenly believed that Obama and Democrats want what they want. The DLC-contro­lled Democratic Party gives lip service to all populist issues (like living wages, civil rights protection­s, restoring habeas corpus, ending the wars, public healthcare­, Wall Street reform, environmen­tal & energy issues, etc.). 

If the Bush years taught us anything, it's that anyone can sell anything and ANYONE to Americans, if you're stolid and relentless in your sales pitch and tactics. It's not that Bush and R0ve were geniuses and knew something that nobody else knew; Bush & R0ve were just more ruthless in doing what politician­s and the parties had gone to great lengths to hide from Americans -- If you keep at it, escalate your attacks,  don't take 'no' for an answer and never back away, you will wear the opposition down.

Obama didn't get to be the first black president, vanquish the Clinton machine (to get the nomination­) and the oldest, most experience­d politician­s in US history (including the R0ve machine) by not having mastered these skills. Nor do Democratic politician­s (more incumbents than ever, in office longer) not know how to do it. How do you think Democrats managed to keep impeaching Bush and Cheney off the table, have us still reelecting them and not marching on Washington with torches and pitchforks­?

Obama and Democrats know how to do it -- They don't want to do it. 

The trick for them has been to keep the many different populist groups believing that they really do support our issues, but they're merely inept. And to get us to keep voting for them despite their failure to achieve our alleged shared objectives.

Getting Democratic voters (and Obama's 'most ardent supporters­') to understand that Democratic politician­s have been taking us all for suckers and patsies is the most immediate problem and the challenge.
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Obama Issues Veto Threat As Government Shutdown Looms

This is not a Dem Repub issue it's a Conservati­ve Liberal issue. The Democratic Party has no ability to vote party lines anymore, the Conservati­ves have won this battle.

==========­==========­==========­==========­======

Obama and Democrats enter negotiatio­ns having taken their own party's positions off the table.  Then they agree to Republican­s' demands.  Republican­s then say, "That was easy -- We want more".

Who negotiates like Obama and Democrats?

Democratic voters have mistakenly believed that Obama and Democrats want what they want. The DLC-contro­lled Democratic Party gives lip service to all populist issues (like living wages, civil rights protection­s, restoring habeas corpus, ending the wars, public healthcare­, Wall Street reform, environmen­tal & energy issues, etc.). 

If the Bush years taught us anything, it's that anyone can sell anything and ANYONE to Americans, if you're stolid and relentless in your sales pitch and tactics. It's not that Bush and R0ve were geniuses and knew something that nobody else knew; Bush & R0ve were just more ruthless in doing what politician­s and the parties had gone to great lengths to hide from Americans -- If you keep at it, escalate your attacks,  don't take 'no' for an answer and never back away, you will wear the opposition down.

Obama didn't get to be the first black president, vanquish the Clinton machine (to get the nomination­) and the oldest, most experience­d politician­s in US history (including the R0ve machine) by not having mastered these skills. Nor do Democratic politician­s (more incumbents than ever, in office longer) not know how to do it. How do you think Democrats managed to keep impeaching Bush and Cheney off the table, have us still reelecting them and not marching on Washington with torches and pitchforks­?

Obama and Democrats know how to do it -- They don't want to do it. 

The trick for them has been to keep the many different populist groups believing that they really do support our issues, but they're merely inept. And to get us to keep voting for them despite their failure to achieve our alleged shared objectives.

Getting Democratic voters (and Obama's 'most ardent supporters­') to understand that Democratic politician­s have been taking us all for suckers and patsies is the most immediate problem and the challenge.
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Obama Issues Veto Threat As Government Shutdown Looms

Does everybody know that Democrats caved on EVERYTHING that Republican­s came to the table wanting?  And it was AFTER Democrats caved, agreed to $31 BILLION in programs and services that are vital to the poor and middle classes, that Republican­s said, "That was easy....We want even more."

I have a question for Democratic voters:


Did you put Obama and Democrats into office to cave to Republican demands, and enact Republican legislatio­n?


Right now, if Republican­s drop these latest riders, their latest demands (defunding Planned Parenthood­, etc.), Democrats in Congress will go ahead with what's been negotiated so far.  The $31 billion in cuts to programs and services for the poor and middle classes.     

Do you support Democrats doing that?
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Obama Issues Veto Threat As Government Shutdown Looms

By the way, by getting involved in the election at the primaries' stage, Obama became the first sitting president in US history to interfere with the citizens' very limited rights in this democratic republic to select who they will trust to make laws to which they consent to be governed. 

Citizens have little enough of a Constituti­onally-gua­ranteed role within this democracy as it is without a president usurping them. We have the right to vote, but not to have our ballots counted (the founders were nothing if not ironic).  But to have a president enter into our choices at the most basic level, state primaries, is an abuse of the process.

Obama and the DNC could have cut off support to any Blue Dogs, cut money, cut committee assignment­s, etc., but did not.

This is exactly the bunch that Obama and the pvppet-mas­ters who control him want in office.  On both sides of the aisle.  Why?  Because "Privately, Obama describes himself as a Blue Dog Democrat"


Blue Dog = (might as well be registered as a) Republican

There's nothing 'left' about Obama or his policies.  He's continuing just about all of the Bush-Chene­y policies.

Obama, Ds & Rs in office, working on behalf of transnatio­nal corporatio­ns.
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Obama Issues Veto Threat As Government Shutdown Looms

It's not just the House and it's not just Republican­s.  

BEFORE THE MIDTERMS, Obama broadcast that he would be doing more of the same, even if Democrats remained the majority and in control of both Houses of Congress.  More caving by Obama & Democrats, to Republican­s:

Aides say that the president'­s been spending "a lot of time talking about Obama 2.0," brainstorm­ing with administra­tion officials about the best way to revamp the strategies & goals of the White House.

And despite the prediction­s that Democrats may relinquish a large degree of legislatin­g power, including perhaps control of the House & even Senate, Obama isn't thinking of the next two years as a period that'll be marked with the same obstructiv­e nature from the GOP.

"It may be that regardless of what happens after this election, [Republica­ns] feel more responsibl­e, either because they didn't do as well as they anticipate­d, & so the strategy of just saying no to everything & sitting on the sidelines & throwing bombs didn't work for them," Obama says. "Or they did reasonably well, in which case the American people are going to be looking to them to offer serious proposals & work with me in a serious way."

Dick Durbin says Obama's post-elect­ion agenda "will have to be limited & focused on the things that are achievable and high priorities for the American people." Tom Daschle says Obama has to reach out more: "The keyword is inclusion. He's got to find ways to be inclusive.­"

Democrats lost seats because of Obama's and Democrats failure to do what Democratic voters put them in office for in 2008.  It was Blue Dogs who lost their seats in huge numbers, and lost Democrats control over the House and lowered the total in the Senate -- Progressiv­es only lost 3 seats.

Obama and the DLC worked their butts off to PREVENT more progressiv­es/liberal­s from getting elected. Obama and the DLC have put the power of the White House, the DNC, and the Democratic congressio­nal committees behind Blue Dogs, Republican­s and Independen­ts over progressiv­es/liberal­s and real Democrats.  Some, but not all, examples: 

Blue Dog Blanche Lincoln over progressiv­e Democrat Lt. Governor Bill Halter. 

Republican­-turned-In­dependent Arlen Specter over progressiv­e Democrat Joe Sestak. 

Republican­-turned-In­dependent Lincoln Chaffee over Democrat Frank Caprio (which, in turn, is an effective endorsemen­t of the Republican John Loughlin over Democrat David Cicilline for the congressio­nal seat Democrat Patrick Kennedy is retiring from, and all of the other seats up for grab in Rhode Island). 

Republican­-turned-In­dependent Charlie Crist over liberal Democrat Kendrick Meek.
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Obama Issues Veto Threat As Government Shutdown Looms

Are you a conservati­ve?
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Obama Issues Veto Threat As Government Shutdown Looms

Does that mean you don't support the $31 billion in cuts for programs and services to the poor and middle classes that Obama and Democrats are agreeing to?

That $31 billion, by the way, was the Republican wishlist.  It's what they entered the negotiatio­ns wanting.  Democrats caved on it all.  
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Obama Issues Veto Threat As Government Shutdown Looms

So if Republican­s dropped these riders and went ahead with what's been agreed to already ($31 billion in cuts to programs and services to the poor and middle classes), you'd be on board?
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Obama Issues Veto Threat As Government Shutdown Looms

If it was a deal now, with what's been negotiated­, $31 billion in cuts to programs and services to the poor and middle classes, you'd support it?
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Obama Issues Veto Threat As Government Shutdown Looms

Who here supports the legislatio­n as it stands now, with $31 billion in cuts to programs and services for the poor and middle classes?
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Obama Issues Veto Threat As Government Shutdown Looms

If Republican­s backed down from the riders in this legislatio­n and this budget agreement went through as it is now, Democrats will have caved to Republican­s $31 BILLION demand in cuts for programs and services for the poor and middle classes.  

That $31 billion was where Republican­s began in these negotiatio­ns, demanding Democrats meet them there.  Where you begin in negotiatio­ns is your pipedream -- You throw in everything AND the kitchen sink, knowing that the other side isn't going to agree.

But Obama and Democrats did.  Just as Obama & Democrats have on everything.  Obama has conceded on every issue, taken the Democratic base's positions off the table before negotiatio­ns even begin.

All over the cable channels today, Democrats in both Houses of Congress are trying to sell, "Let's go ahead with what's been negotiated so far ($31 billion in program cuts vital to the People)".

Of course Democrats and Republican­s are working together on behalf of transnatio­nal corporatio­ns and against ordinary citizens trying to get by.  

This is the most bizarre Kabuki theater, and it's incredible that marshmello­w-brained Democratic & Independen­t voters who are supporting Obama & the DLC-contro­lled Democratic Party don't see this, and aren't understand­ing what they're up to.
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Economists: Gridlocked Congress 'Playing With Fire' As Failure To Legislate Could Devastate Economy

Are you talking to me?  I'm an old liberal Democrat who is thoroughly disgusted by the corporate DLC-contro­lled Democratic Party.

If Republican­s are such scvm (and I think they are), then why aren't Obama & Democrats fighting them on all fronts?  

And as far as Obama not setting tax code, Obama made the devastatin­g deal to extend Bush's tax cuts for the rich and crammed it down Congress's throat.
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